Coach Dan Lundy from 4th Down U and How His System Builds Professional Athletes

Prepare to step onto the field with Coach Dan Lundy of Fourth Down U, as he shares the playbook to transforming pressure into performance for special teams athletes. From the 2001 Miami Hurricanes National Championship squad to guiding 84 All-Americans, Coach Lundy's insight is a game-changer for anyone interested in the intersection of sports and life lessons. This episode promises an in-depth look at the strategic importance of kickers, punters, and long snappers, and the unique blend of physics and math Coach Lundy uses to sharpen their skills.

Ever wondered what goes through a kicker's mind during the final, game-winning field goal attempt? The conversation with Coach Lundy unlocks the mental vault of special teams players, unveiling the 'to don't list' that helps these athletes cut through the noise and nail their crucial moments. We also examine the journey of resilience in professional athletes, like Cairo Santos, and underscore the importance of mental fortitude, much like Joe Judge of the Patriots did at the NFL Combine. This episode isn't just about the plays; it's about the people who make them and the process that shapes them.

Lastly, we celebrate the impact of sports beyond the scoreboard. Dive into the heartwarming success of Coach Lundy's free kicking camp, which exploded from 170 to 500 attendees, buoyed by professional athlete involvement and community support. We reflect on the transformative lessons of failure, the role of mentorship, and the indelible legacy left by those who coach with conviction. It's an episode that will inspire athletes, coaches, and anyone who appreciates the relentless pursuit of excellence. Join us for a conversation that goes the distance, where every second counts, and every story inspires.

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Transcript

Special Teams' Importance in Football

Coach Riley 0:00

Welcome to the 6a impractice podcast . I'm your host , jason Riley . Today we get the pleasure of talking to coach Dan Lundy . Coach Lundy has made a significant mark in the world of football when he founded Fourth Down U and he's no stranger to winning , as he was part of the 2001 Miami Hurricanes National Championship team . With over 21 years of coaching , coach Lundy has significantly contributed to the development of numerous division one kickers , punters and long snappers . His coaching success is highlighted by his trainees' accomplishments he's produced 84 All Americans , three Lugraza Award winners , four Ray Guy Award winners and one Fred Mitchell Award winner . Many of these athletes who have trained under him at Fourth Down U have earned scholarships and several have excelled in the NFL , including names like Matt Wright and Chris Boswell .

Coach Riley 0:42

Coach Lundy is also the founder of the Kick it Forward Foundation and the Fourth Down Focus Podcast , emphasizing the strategic importance of Fourth Down in football . Coach Lundy often speaks at the American Football Coaches Association , nike Coach of the Year Clinic , glaser Clinics and Coaches Insider , plus many , many more organizations . He's based out of the Sunshine State , florida , and I'd like to welcome Coach Dan Lundy to the podcast . How you doing , man ? I'm doing all right , it's been a quick minute since we talked .

Coach Dan Lundy 1:10

That was quite the intro . No , I feel blessed that . You know . I was just thinking about all that stuff just now . That was wild . It's been football's giving me so much , you know , and I just I'm just grateful to share my story with you today .

Coach Riley 1:23

What you're doing is you're shining a light on probably the unsexiest thing about football kickers , punters , long snappers and nobody loves a kicker until the season's on the line . Nobody loves the long snapper until he botches a snap , and it is so . It is such a huge part of the game it's almost often ignored and since I've met you , I watch football now with a different perspective , 100% , and it is such a it is such an important part of the game because a lot of things happen on fourth down , a lot of things can go wrong on fourth down , and when they go wrong on fourth down , they go really wrong . So the fact that you've taken that aspect of the sport and work with these athletes and trying to get them to improve their game so they can be the best that they can be , it's huge . It is so huge . So what ? What inspired you ? Like you're playing with the Canes , right You're ? You're now , after football , football , you know your athletic careers over with . What inspired you to become a coach , and not just a coach , but a specialist coach ?

Coach Dan Lundy 2:33

Well , my career ended very , very abruptly . Pretty much between my sophomore and junior true years of college . I played right away my first game at Miami as a 17 year old freshman . I had aspirations , obviously to play on Sunday . That's what I wanted to do . I gave up soccer . My dad was a high level soccer player from England and he came over here to play in this country and he wanted me to play soccer . But then when the opportunities arose , my junior year you know I'm going to Bama , I'm going all over the place .

Coach Dan Lundy 3:06

Like I didn't really know much about the sport , right , and what I did know was quarterback play and who the wide receiver was . Like I liked Randy Moss , I liked Chris Carter . Growing up I didn't care about specialists . In fact I really didn't like you . I like most people still . I just thought it was part of it , but not what I was interested in . I wanted him to see the big place . But what I realized later in life was it's the catalyst , right . If you don't have one , that cripples you , if you do one , have one , have one . That makes the difference almost always . But back to your question about why do I coach . It was very reluctantly .

Coach Dan Lundy 3:43

There was a guy named Mike McCabe that used to come on Tuesdays to the University of Miami . He played for the Bears in the late 80s . He was a punter , all American out of Illinois State . He was the consultant down in Miami . He got in , you know , we were number one in the country . He wanted to be a part of us , of course , and we were in love with the fact , thought that , oh my goodness , a guy can actually help us , and it was awesome . So there was a relationship built and when I got hurt , I obviously wanted nothing to do with the sport . Miami was awesome . If I kept a three year , they honored my scholarship monies . I was like a four oh student .

Coach Dan Lundy 4:19

When I left football , right , I wanted to ensure that I didn't pay that 58 grand a year and that's why I'm really really big on academics now . But coaching he finally convinced me to come out one day and then eventually , I worked with him for 17 years and then , about five years ago , I started fourth down U because it's something that I really wanted to do . I wanted to do something different and I wanted to be more objective . I wanted to use physics , I wanted to use math . I wanted to be able to step into a room , regardless of the history you have with football , and I wanted to show you that I've thought about this a lot more than you , so that's where I am now . Yeah , you mentioned physics and math .

Coach Riley 4:58

I love when you post something and you're drilling down in such a minute detail , right , about whether it's this or that . Those little as details are what make the difference , like the big stuff . Everybody can learn the big stuff , right , and I'm not saying everybody's , you know a kicker or a long snapper or whatever . But there's this , there's this view of oh , I'm just kicking the ball , like you know , and people make fun of the punters and you know they're like I could be a punter or whatever . No , you couldn't . No , you couldn't , not at that level . So how do you , when you , when you look at somebody and you're watching their phone , how do you use the physics and math ? How do you break that down and then give them something tangible that they can try on the next rep and improve their performance ? That's a tough question to answer without we're visual .

Coach Dan Lundy 5:47

I do talk about that often , right , and that's why I use barbousal shaving cream . I essentially look at a football field , especially a grass field . Well , turf too , for that matter , because it wipes off turf just fine . I used to use shaving cream , I used to use turf , just fine . I used to use spray paint on fields and I got kicked off when I was in my twenties , so I found some I could use , because I learned as a teacher .

Coach Dan Lundy 6:09

I spent 12 years in the classroom with a high school setting and I read a book one time on like delivery of information and really I just I circled this one little line that said 80% of what we retain is visually . You know , and I was like boom , light bulb . I've got to stop preaching , right , I'm expecting that . What I'm saying , that they're visualizing I've got a show , I've got a show and I'm getting somewhere with that . I think that we all need to move linear , right , and people make fun of me right now because you know it's new , I'm the only one saying it . So , people , I think they're they're afraid of it , right , honestly , the people that say things like that , trying to suppress others from hearing it . But it's true , I think , if we tack things in a linear fashion .

Coach Dan Lundy 6:56

A lot of us as soccer players which most of us are previous we play soccer . We move in a parabola to the ball and I look at it like a golf swing , like a Tiger Woods and his prime swing , his hands , are linear . There's no parabola downswing . And so I I draw a lot of parallels . A lot of my guys are pitchers . Great parallel to kicking because it's off axis , just like the legs off axis , but underhanded softball pitching . I've learned a lot from elite pitching coaches and softball because that's a . That's the same pattern as a punt and release point with the hand in the ball is the same as con Type point of the foot in the ball .

Coach Dan Lundy 7:30

So , again , these things are things that I've considered and then I'll just go to , like the local there's a school here in town , daytona State , it's a college . I'll go to the math professor there and be like is this correct ? I want to . I want to validate this because it's very important when I'm delivering information and I'm making the subtle list of changes that they're always , almost always , for the better . My client last week was the Lou Groza winner last year , chris Dunn 21 for 21, . Last at NC State 11 for 11 at the NFL Combine Arguably the best kid in the country . Right now that's not in the NFL . He just signed with the XFL two days ago . He came in for two days and his expectation that I was going to help him , so you better believe that on my down days I'm not in the field , that I'm ensuring that what I'm saying is what I believe to be the most true . But again , I'm always going to refine that process . It's my job to get better too .

Coach Riley 8:26

And you touched on something that is huge and that is you know , as coaches nowadays we have to stop preaching so much and start showing , because the kids is visual , you know , they're all on the phones , it's tick , tock , it's like it's got to be visual for them .

Coach Riley 8:41

If you just tell them and they've got to create it in their own mind like they're not going to , they're just it's . That type of thinking has kind of gone to the wayside and it's more like show me , show me . So when you do have those videos and you're showing them just a little as a changes , right , but you're setting them up for success and the fact that you know you've had so many successful athletes come to you and you've turned out of you know , I would imagine , and I would bet that they're always better after they've talked to you because you've adjusted something in their kick and I don't know a lot about whether it's , you know , the swing or the kick or the physics you were talking about . What do you consider your greatest achievement in developing all of these guys that have won all of these awards ?

Coach Dan Lundy 9:30

Oh , I think that honestly , you need those guys , but what's more important is having those guys as testaments that what I'm saying is true . And I think what I wanted to communicate before we go much further with all this is the physics and the linear movements and drawing parallels to golf and softball throwing , and all this is not to . My goal is not to make things more discombobulated in your head , to put more on your plate , if you will . I think what the key element to coaching should be is we're all trying to be repeatable , right , and to be repeatable , you have to minimize variables . So it's mostly about extraction , right .

Coach Dan Lundy 10:09

It's mostly about saying well , I think everyone that really is competitive and really trains and really cares and is conscientious about all the things that what they do need to be done . I think we then need to say what's not needed , what can we get rid of ? Because I think that that extra movement in your second to third movement , I think that little glitch or that hitching your tempo , I think that's the deviation from your best ball , always so it's . It's almost never me telling them something they didn't already know , but I think it's more along the lines of when you really know something , you know what something isn't . I say that a lot , too , to really really know something . You know everything that it is not , and I think that's when we can start eliminating excessive things like variables in your process .

Coach Riley 10:56

Yeah , and that's a . That is a new mindset

Pressure and Focus in Kicking

Coach Riley 11:00

, kind of just . In the world today , like everybody has to do lists , the big thing is the to don't list right , and so you don't want to take . Say , there's 15 pieces of a field goal kick . Right , there's 15 different sections . You don't want to add three more , you want to take away the ones that aren't working and , like you said , you want to eliminate the variable because of it . If it's repeatable , it has to be the exact same every single time .

Coach Riley 11:24

And when you eliminate variables or you limit the variables that you're changing . Because if I try to change three things at once and it gets better , I don't really know which thing made it get better . Was it all three ? Was it one of them ? Was it a combination of the two ?

Coach Riley 11:41

So I like , where you're going , where , when you're looking at these , you're looking at these kickers and these , these football players , and you're telling them listen , you got a little hitch and you giddy up here , right , let's eliminate that little piece and then see if it improves , right , so now they don't have to learn something else . They're taking a step back and saying , okay , what is it I shouldn't be doing , which is exactly what you mentioned and you're working with these guys at such a high level because , again , nobody loves the kicker until he wins the game and when the season's on the line and everything's there . It's got to be perfect for these guys and they don't get a lot of playing time . I mean , they're only out on the field like extra points or if it's a four , if they're a punter , right , if they're putting the ball , same with the long snappers . So they get very little playing time . But the playing time that they do get is so critical of the success of the team it's almost unfair to put that much pressure on them and only have them out on the field every now and then .

Coach Riley 12:43

How do you get those athletes to stay focused , to stay in the moment ? Right , they're on the sidelines , you always see them , the kickers by themselves . You know they're , they're practicing , you know they can kick the field goals . I don't think you can practice punts on the fields . Maybe you can , maybe they have a net on the side or something , but how do you so ? I'm a student athlete , I'm in high school , I'm a punter . How do I stay focused and locked in during the game when I might only be out on the field for , you know , five , 10 seconds at a time .

Coach Dan Lundy 13:14

I was fortunate enough to be at Nick Saban's first kicking camp Bama , wow , I have a picture of it . It's kind of glitchy , it's old school , it's like a real photo , right . But the story that and it was impressive , right , and it was before he'd done a lot there . Obviously it was this summer , before his first year . He said to my kickers at the end of camp that I treat my kickers like assassins in practice . I often give them one shot each , that's it , but their responsibility is to do what be ready .

Coach Dan Lundy 13:46

Oh and , by the way , jace , on certain days and I don't know if this has changed , but I know urban did this as well there was two or three days a week where they would insert a field goal in , like period 14 and urban's discretion , so there could be an inside drill going on at field goal and there's all sorts of people have to all of a sudden be present . I'm on that team Assemble , kick the field goal and if you don't make it , it's extra running . Get back to work , go . How do you think you feel as a kicker in practice if that happens ? But I think that was intentional . I think they wanted to give them that simulated as best we can , and that's pressure . You're going to have people that are mad at you short term or love you short term . You just took off two gassers , thank you , or one 10s , whatever it is , or you didn't , you missed , and now you're like what'd you do ?

Coach Dan Lundy 14:36

all practice , that's all you got to do , right ? That's not for everybody and that's what I screen in high school . It's not for everyone and I try to screen that in ninth grade because it's not for everyone . I do not want to put someone out there in that situation , their junior year and me knowing full and well that they can't handle . That moment will happen to all of us . It happens . You will lose a game . How are you going to respond ? Some people , it folds them mentally right , and I don't think it's for everyone . So I can't teach that . I can screen it , I can condition

Fourth Down's Importance in Football

Coach Dan Lundy 15:08

it . Another analogy I'll give you another quick story .

Coach Dan Lundy 15:12

Chiro Santos how he made it Joe Judge for the Patriots was a big proponent of his mind in the NFL Combine . He said you're the only kid that didn't have a negative response to your only miss . He went 11 of 12 , looked at the miss , carried on to the next rep like nothing happened . Everyone else who missed that day and everyone missed that day for that matter Everyone's sulked head sunk . They said mother F , this , whatever , showed their butt right and said I am not mentally even Chiro is . He circled his name and started and said you are even . And guess what ? It's reflective he's the best kicker in the history of the Chicago Bears . He's five nine . It's not because he's an Adonis . But I could carry on . I hope that was a parting even answer your question , but I don't think it's for everyone and and I have to screen that first of all- yeah , no , that was exactly what I'm talking about .

Coach Riley 16:08

I mean , I love the . I mean everybody's doing their own thing . Field goal congregate , get ready , set go . You got the other team right . They're trying to block it . Seasons on the line , playoffs are on the line , the games on the line and people are like , oh well , it's the first game or the second game , it doesn't really matter . Tell that , come , play off time . We need a tiebreaker . Tell that when you're looking at the division I mean , every kick matters .

Coach Riley 16:35

Extra points , field goals it doesn't matter , and you know punts , you want to pin them down . You know , at the one yard line , coffin corner , kick , all of that stuff . And the fact that you use the term assassin , I think that's . I think that's really showing they are there on the sideline . You're sitting there . You have one job . Come in , do it , do it right . You know you have all these fans and this is this is just side note I'm the same way I used to be , like you know , oh boo , you stink , you're horrible , you're a crappy player Like whoever . You know if you're talking field goal kickers , because I'm a Dallas fan we've had our , we've had our issues with field goal kickers and stuff like that . He's still the 30 second best guy in the world because he's on a professional team and it's like you know you got all these . You know Monday morning quarterbacks and it's like you know this and that that guy's got a family , he's got kids , he's got to come down , you know , after the game he misses it . Maybe it's for the playoffs , maybe it's not , you know , and I don't think there's another aspect . But you throw the ball . It's a Hail Mary . The wide receiver drops it doesn't catch it . I don't think that carries the same amount of mental impact on you as a field goal kicker , because you got one job and you're there to do it .

Coach Riley 17:49

So the fact that you're already looking at you know you said ninth grade trying to figure out you know who would be good at this position , who wouldn't be good at this position , because I think that's very important , that you're setting the kids up for success . You don't want to put somebody in a position that you know they can't handle just because you need a body in the seat right . That is unfair to the kid , it's unfair to the team , you know it's just because those I can't even imagine being a high school kid playing . You got to go to that school the next day . If you're a professional athlete , yeah , whatever . Right , you know , let me go check my ATM . I got $80 million in the bank . I'm cool . You're a high school kid . You got to sit in math class with those guys . You got to hear it in the hallway and when you make it you're the savior and when you miss it you're the scapegoat . So there's a lot of pressure that goes into that position .

Coach Riley 18:39

And as you've been teaching these kids , you know , at some point you said you know what I need to really lock this down and make it my own . And you had mentioned something like a lot of people kind of you know adds new stuff or whatever . I think you're a ground floor of redefining the fourth down and you created fourth down university . So you took what you were doing and you decided you know what , I'm going to make this my own , right ? I want to . I want these kids to have success . I don't want to be part of this little program over here for one school . I want to help every kid in every school , right ? So you created fourth down . You what exactly triggered in your mind to say you know where you woke up in morning . You know what I'm going to take this extra step . How did that come around ?

Coach Dan Lundy 19:26

There came a time that was probably when my first child was born where things got a little more real and life got more expensive and I wanted to do things for her that my lifestyle wasn't going to be able to provide . So initially it was . I think I could do better for her and if I gave some things away and focus entirely on what I believe you know , putting my priorities first and the way I want to handle things business wise , I think that I could make more of an impact to more people , and it's more than the kids . You know . Obviously I have to educate the parents , because they're a pivotal role in getting the kids to the right events , right Prioritizing for the kids , and because I can't live with the kids but it's very important that their time is managed , not asking them to be helicopter parents as much as just generally nudge them and say you train in like eight hours , you might need to get like a six hour nap real quick . You know like this is important stuff . We're trying to instill good habits . So , most importantly , I think what it is Jase is like locally you know , orlando area , tampa I've really built bridges with showing them the value of what you know to be true now .

Coach Dan Lundy 20:36

If you guys don't win districts because you don't have good fuel position , put your defense in bad spots , your offense gets less touches and it's all resultant forces of being crappy and fourth down . And it's because time spent . You spend 0% of the time during the week . So if the other team spends 10% of their time on it , they now have one in six . Or , marys to say this to his players , they have a one in six advantage . One in six plays is , in fact , a special teams play . So you're neglecting one in six plays and football , which sometimes there's 8090 plays . Do the math , it's a lot of plays . That's 10 plus plays and that's that's a lot of plays .

Coach Dan Lundy 21:18

And then you know he was showing me some data back then . And Urban I know he's messed up off the field , but talk about a guy that I've been around five or six summers I spent . He brought me to Florida and Ohio State , all of which he signed a number of my kids . So he would teach me . I would teach him because I knew very little what I knew he wanted . And then he'd be like come here and look at this , I want to show you this chart . It was like a starting field position chart , which is why he really , really placed an emphasis on kickoff and which you know . He told me about Bama . I'll tell you a cool one , and you could . This is a cool one .

Coach Dan Lundy 21:52

He knew when he was going to play Bama for the first time I guess Urban Meyer first thing , 6 am on a Sunday . I think it was one of the first units he would look for and the opponent was their kick receive right . This will blow your mind and most teams kick lefty left , because the kicker's righty , the least important person on a kick receive unit , is the guy furthest away , the left end on their side . If he goes 40 , 45 yards and gets in position and makes a great block , he's like I know we have a well coached football team , because usually that's a weakness for everyone . And I was like mind blow , mind blow , and I think it's about being around . We talked about this before the recording . Don't be scared , go out there and ask people , network . My parents used to tell me that , like if you do not network , you were doing yourself a disservice . And now I get it , because everyone has excellent ideas . Everyone's brain works differently , everyone sees things differently , everyone has different interests , if you just listen right , it's eye-opening right .

Coach Riley 22:55

People seem to have a real big fear about talking to people who they've put on a pedestal or they view as they're not worthy to talk to them . But I mean , even in the business world , every company I've ever worked for , within the first week I've gone up to the CEO or the president introduced myself . Like he's either gonna know who I am because I introduced myself or he's never gonna know me , or he's gonna know me because I screwed up , like I'd rather have him know me because I introduced myself . And he's just a person , like he's just . You know , he's made different decisions in his life . He's at a specific spot where you know , maybe I wanna be there , maybe I don't . But the same goes for coaches , and you know everybody loves talking about themselves . Everybody does . I love it . You love it Because when somebody comes to me and says , hey , coach , I need some help , I feel empowered because wait a minute , this guy's struggling with something and he wants to know what I think and I'm gonna do everything I can to make sure that he gets the right information . If I don't know the information , I'll go find out who knows the information and maybe direct them there . So the fact that you're talking about going and asking questions , you know , I mean the one thing that I have realized if somebody comes to me and says , hey , I wanna shoot better , what do I need to do ? I don't know . Why don't you give me some more information ? Why don't you tell me you're putting up 100 shots a day and you're doing it three days a week or whatever it is , and then maybe offer me a solution ? Should I double my shot reps ? Should I do something like come to me with the problem , come to me with the solution , and then I'll either be like , yep , that's exactly what I do , or I would say , nope , you're focusing on the wrong thing . Maybe let's look at how much sleep are you getting ? Are you getting four hours of sleep a night ? That's probably your problem .

Coach Riley 24:38

And so when you do go to somebody and you want their information and then here's another piece and they're called ask holes , right , I ask you something , you tell me , and then I don't do it . And then I come to you again and I ask you something else and you tell me and I don't do it . Soon , you're done talking . You're like they're doing ask hole . All he does is ask questions and he never goes through on what I've told him to do . And when you do that with specific people , after a point in time they're just done with you . Now , if you go to them and you ask them a question and they give you a piece of advice and you implement it and then you come back to them with the results , they're more likely to help you again . And when they see that you're involved in your own self-improvement and they know they don't have to do all the heavy lifting , they're way more likely to give you advice that will help you out . And then you just have to figure out okay , what do I wanna do , how do I wanna do it , and things of that nature .

Coach Riley 25:37

Because when it comes to becoming an athlete , your goal isn't to become better than the other guy . Your goal is to become and it said a lot better than yesterday , right ? And when you put the work in , eventually you just become better than that guy . Because , like you said earlier , if somebody else is putting 0% in and the other guy's just putting in 10% , that's a huge difference , right ? Ah , 10% was 10% . 10% is a lot . 10% of 80 plays is eight plays . Eight plays will change the course of the game , will change the course of the season , will change the course of your career , because the fourth down plays are so critical , right ?

Coach Riley 26:16

And so how do you address these players that you've helped , right ? You know you got a kid who comes to you . I want some help . Can you share some insights on the philosophy that you use through fourth down ? You right , I'm sure it's more than kicking . Right , I'm sure it's not just foot to ball right , or , you know , if you're a long snapper , a hand to ball the world's upside down , all that other stuff . What specific philosophies when it comes to success on the field , success in academics , success in the recruiting career , what would you tell somebody that they need to do to make sure that they're setting themselves up for success ? What is your basic philosophy ?

Coach Dan Lundy 27:01

Fail , fail , fail , fail , fail , fail , fail . I say it all the time . I don't think there's anything more important than it , but I think there's a fear of failure that really really is the hindrance in growth , entirely because kids are scared to change . Kids are they're scared to change from average right , because average is pretty good

Aspirations, Failure, and Growth in Athletics

Coach Dan Lundy 27:22

. I'm the best in my high school . What are your aspirations of right ? Well , my aspirations coached her to play on Saturdays . Well , obviously , that's why you're with me .

Coach Dan Lundy 27:31

Have you looked at the standards ? No , we'll go look at them , okay , do you meet the standards ? No , well , how do you reach the standards ? Change ? Well , how do you change Failure ? Right , if we say it out loud , you can't argue it . So I do that all the time , like say it out loud and they're just like all right . And then when the eye roll comes , it's acknowledgement that , okay , we're onto something . But it's more than just failure , because if you're just out there aimlessly failing , yes , you might get worse , but I think it's being meticulous in a process and you need guidance , right , I'm not saying that anyone at this stage if you don't have someone like Tiger , I always say Tiger had a swing coach , right , always , mike Tyson had a manager .

Coach Dan Lundy 28:12

He had a trainer . Everyone that's great . In fact , the best in the world can fight in numerous people for help , and I think that is something that's not sent out . That's a message that's not sent . Lebron James has a team right Life team . His family he's very close with that guy is sustainable for a lot of reasons that people don't talk about , and he's failed more than me for sure , probably a lot more than me , and that's probably why he is where he is . But I realized that a little too late because I was one of those people that was married to my process , which was average , and I mean I got hurt , but I still don't think that I was a pro because of those little things . I think I had all the ability in the world . But back to what I started with . I wanna be what I didn't have . I didn't have anyone that held me accountable , right , because I was good enough and it was all about my standards and my standards weren't where they should have been .

Coach Riley 29:05

Yeah , and that is a hard thing for a student athlete to deal with , right , let's say they're at a certain level , right , and they are , they're the best in their school , maybe they're the best in the district or the division or whatever . It is right . So when you try to give them advice , you're like , what are you talking about ? Like I'm good , I'm good , don't worry about me . But when you go to that next level , everybody's as good as you and you're probably the worst because they've been in a program for three or four years . And so now , all of a sudden , you went from you know , I'm the greatest to you know , sit on the bench , right . And so you mentioned failure , and I think you're right .

Coach Riley 29:45

A lot of people are like , well , I don't wanna fail , I don't wanna fail , right , like cause failure is seen as a negative thing . Right , it's like pass and fail , right . But we're not talking about grades . If you want to become better at something and let's every kid Fortnite you wanna be a better Fortnite player , what do you gotta do ? You gotta lose a lot of matches . You gotta nobody rolls in and starts , you know victory royals and all that other stuff . They lose and you lose , and you lose and you lose , and then you figure something out and so you implement it , and then you lose some more and then you implement something else and before you know it , you kick and butt . But it took all of those failures . So I've come across a little something that I've been talking about lately on Instagram and it's you know , if you wanna grow , you have to change , and if you change you're gonna fail . But you can't grow and you can't succeed without change . So , inherently , failure is part of success . So the more you fail and some people they call it like fast fail right , like figure out what you're doing wrong , correct it , get it going but if you're not failing at what you're doing , you're not improving because you're at the status quo . I know if I do this , this will keep me okay and that might be okay at that level , and if that's your goal , if you're like , well , so I'm just gonna play high school ball and when I'm done , I'm done , like that's one thing . But if you're like I wanna go to the next level , whether it's D1 , d2 , d3 , because the road to the pros is no longer D1 only , I mean D1 , or bust is gone Now , yes , a lot of players that go . The majority of players that do make it in the pros are D1 level , but that's not the store anymore , especially when it comes to where you start isn't where you finish . So if you start out like maybe a D3 a couple of years , maybe you've improved yourself .

Coach Riley 31:33

Because the biggest thing I've learned talking to high school athletes that have gone to the college level is the program , what they thought the high school coach was doing . When they make it to the college level , no matter what school it is , it's always way more intense . Workouts are more intense . Everybody on the team is bought in because they're all there to play at the next level . Nutrition is usually on lockdown , they have perfumes and stuff like that . But it's so different than the high school team because on the high school team guys are just there to be there . They don't have aspirations to play after high school . So when you're working with these guys and you can tell , like what is a key thing ? That when you're working with an athlete and you notice and you're like this kid's gonna make it or he's going to the next level , what is the one thing that most of them have in common ?

Coach Dan Lundy 32:25

You talking in reference to their physical ability or mental , mental , mental , even this for sure , which is , again , it's unfair . And that's why I can't just do a diagnostic , because oftentimes if I cue a kid a few times , like , hey man , you can't act like that , because then it shows what does it do and I think this is what makes sense to the kids in the field is when they because it's a me me thing , it's like I want to show everyone how mad I am because I missed . We know you're not happy about it , right . We know you're not happy about it . You'd be an idiot if you were , so you don't have to show us that . And B , you're also showing weakness to who your coach and your team Do we want him to go out there and do that again , like , look at the state he's in .

Coach Dan Lundy 33:06

He can't handle that . What you want to look at instead , you want to look that ball and you see it misses . Dang it all , right . And then get your butt off the field too . Like , don't walk off , you just missed a field goal , right ? Like , get off the field so we can get back to work . And then we go back in the net or go get some water and do your stuff , but what you don't want to do is show weakness , right , and I think that that is cued in training often and some kids are more inclined to show the mean me like man head down cussing , be it just being negative , yelling at themselves , right , negative self-talk , even leading into the next rep . Can't believe I missed that last one . Come on , that's not helping me make this , I can assure you of that . You're actually not thinking about the thing . Oh , look , there's your plant , so it's going to target , not to plant , because you weren't thinking about your last rep .

Coach Dan Lundy 34:00

Still right , so these things are discussed . You're not going to get this feedback from your high school football coach . He is busy trying to find an offensive tackle . That's not going to kill our quarterback this week and it's unfortunate , but it's true . So I think , thankfully there's accounts like yours . There's so many good places of free information that speak on these things . It's not just kicking , I think it's life , because you are how you respond to things , period , and I think that it permeates into everything you do . So that's again . While I'm making Nick Saban reference , he talks about that a lot Like how you do the little things is how you do the big things right . It's simple . There's no like you don't turn it on and off , like you are who you are and you can get better if you're not where you want to be , and I'm just like that's pretty fundamental . But man does that not make perfect sense , doesn't ?

Coach Riley 34:51

it . Yeah , how you do anything is how you do everything . Sure , is your room clean ? Is your laundry done ? Do you do your laundry ? Do you follow through ? Do you do the laundry and throw it on your bed , or do you fold it up and put it away , like those little things create who you become . Do you know when your grades are Like ? Do you know when your next test is ? Do you know what the syllabus is ? Do you know what's expected of you ?

Coach Riley 35:16

And you listen to these guys like Coach Saban and there's all like I love it when somebody drops a piece of knowledge and you're just like , whoa , that is so obvious . How did I not think of that ? And you got to hear somebody else say it . So the fact that you're referencing these great coaches and , like you mentioned earlier , you can learn something from everybody , that just shows that you have a heart . That is really about hoping these kids through this next stage in their life .

Coach Riley 35:46

And when you're a mentor like that , you have these other aspirations and you see kids that are maybe not , as they don't have the resources that you do , and things like that . So you started and you founded the Kick it Forward Foundation and I wanna talk about that , because that's a huge thing that you're doing , and so can you tell us a little more about what it is , what its objectives are , how does somebody get involved with that ? I really want to kind of do a little bit of a deep dive into that , because you're helping the people who don't always have the resources , and that's a big thing , that is . I mean , things are expensive , parents are cutting back . How did you come up with the foundation and what's its main purpose ?

Coach Dan Lundy 36:33

My coach at mainland high school in Daytona Beach was the mayor of Daytona and he came and volunteered his time because he used to be a scout for the Raiders . He owned the Jacks and those sharks . He was a circuit court judge before mayor . I mean , the dude was like forest gump of football , right , but he had a really , really big passion for special teams and when I transferred from Seabreeze to mainland , which were rival schools , he helped me a lot . He saw it in me . He's like I think I can help you Just in terms of like , what football is played , like , like why do we wanna go left , deep left ? I didn't know any of that stuff . I was a soccer player . I knew how to kick it , but he explained to me why we're going to the field and what the boundary is and why the alley is relevant and these things were , anyway , I mean , huge impact on my life . He passed away when I was teaching at mainland , where I played , where he coached me at , and I told his family I wanna do something to honor

Positive Impact and Giving Back

Coach Dan Lundy 37:28

him .

Coach Dan Lundy 37:28

So I did a free kicking camp and there was 170 kids showed up the first year . Wow , and I was like holy moly , we had 22 college athletes come that first show . I'll never forget these numbers Cause I was like , I mean , I had Drew Christman , who's now , you know , in the NFL . I had him from the . He came all the way from Ohio State Cause he's like bro , it's free for kids and Drew's a good guy . You should follow Drew . Drew does a lot of outreach . Still , he did a thing with Lyft this summer where he essentially just was a Lyft driver for free and like marketed for him had to be to give away to homeless . It was cool , but these things are unbelievable , often a tangent .

Coach Dan Lundy 38:05

But it then turned into Ricardo Allen , who was playing for the Falcons , who played for Bud Asher too . He was like can I do an offense defense component to your king camp ? So now we had 500 kids . So now Adidas got involved , drew Rosenhaus , who was the agent for Ricardo at the time he was our main sponsor . I was like , oh my God , every kid got gloves like really nice , really nice gloves . You know , footballs were thrown around , brand new ones . Everyone got towels from the Falcons . So it just it got nuts and it was neat to see how many people were like you step up , like Yeti okay .

Coach Dan Lundy 38:44

Yeti was like how many people do you want to give a free 32 tumbler for ? I was like 50 ? Sure , no problem , barbersaw . That's how I got sponsored . You know , I think when you are , or if you really really are authentic with helping others , I think it does come back . I don't know if I believe in karma , if you will , but I think there's something about there's an energy that you exude if you're negative and there's an energy you exude if you're positive . And I think if you have that positive energy , I think it motivates people and you show them through your action like you do something too . I don't care what it is , but that you know and that's just being around the right people . I think that's what motivated me to do stuff like this .

Coach Riley 39:25

Yeah , that's a huge , huge thing when and a lot of athletes don't do this at the high school level and stuff , and it really bothers me like I see a lot of and this is I'll speak of basketball , because that's what my sons played you see these basketball players and kids on the team and the players are making fun of the other kids , like , look at his shot . There was a kid , there was a kid who played and he had the worst shot in the world , like it was horrible , like I , and he was a senior , so he was on the varsity team , right , cause seniors were varsity only and he never played . I never understood why the coaches let him go through his career with that shot , like . And then I never understood why the athletes did Like , listen , he ain't taking your spot , but take him aside and teach him how to shoot the ball man , cause it's an embarrassment . Now the story has a great ending . And wasn't there , I didn't see it . I wish I would have . It's one of those magical events in sports . They put him in last game , seniors game , put him in . He drilled three , threes with the ugliest form in the world , yeah , and he boom all net , knocked them all three out Crowds going crazy , like he will never forget that . Now maybe that was supposed to be his lot in life and he wouldn't have those memories if he wouldn't have that .

Coach Riley 40:39

But I mean , when you see somebody who's struggling , you can help them out and you never know what your impact is going to have on them . They could have an issue at home , they could have a family member who's sick , they could have a parent who's sick , right , and so it reflects on their play when they're at practice and things like that . So so I love how you said that you know giving back and helping out . You exude that positive force and I do believe that , for whatever reason , negativity spreads easier than positivity . I have no , I have no idea why . I think it has something to do with because everybody's kind of in a everybody can always kind of say poor me . Even when you're making you know , $50 million a year , you got to poor me , like what's your poor me , right ? But that spreads around the locker room and you hear about these players who you know . They refer to them as toxic in the locker room and they just don't even want them on the team , right , cause their negativity brings those , brings everybody down or it creates beef or whatever the deal is .

Coach Riley 41:38

But as an athlete or a coach , anytime you can help somebody else out , you could have such a tremendous impact in their life that you might not know about . It might be five years down the road and it always comes back to when you talk to these athletes or they'll they'll mention well , my coach in fifth grade or my coach in junior high or my co somebody . At some point you made such an imprint on their memory that you became part of their identity and I think that's what you know . With the camp and providing these resources and you get all these businesses that want to be part of it . Like that's electric , like I'm so proud of you for being able to go out there and recognize that you have a greater talent that's able to be shared .

Coach Riley 42:21

But on the flip side , how can I bring these kids in who normally wouldn't have a chance right ? So you're talking about it's this free camp and it's going on me when I become a deck of millionaire , multi-millionaire or whatever . I want to be part of that and be like listen , plane tickets are free , like it's all free , right , not just the camp , like the plane . You know what I'm saying . I mean

Failure and Refinement in Athletics

Coach Riley 42:43

.

Coach Dan Lundy 42:43

I'll tell you one . This is interesting . You know who Tank Dell is .

Coach Riley 42:47

No .

Coach Dan Lundy 42:47

For the Texans . He's like well , he just got hurt , but he was arguably up for NFL rookie of the year . He was our little MVP for like eighth graders . One last time we did it with Ricardo and now we're like dude Tank Dell's . He was up for me , he was stud . Anyway , he's CJ Stroud's favorite target . So he got hurt last week and I'm like wait a second , tank , he was our MVP at grade three , seven camps , you know so and again . Like he would not have had that experience and who knows , like I think the tangible , you know , like Ricardo was there , he like shook his hand , he got to play against him , probably ran a route against him .

Coach Dan Lundy 43:23

I think those moments are huge and , as you said , is if you're around kids , whether you're a teacher or a coach or definitely a parent , I think there's so much more responsibility there than a lot of people acknowledge and they do a pretty poor job in my opinion . And I'm not saying I'm perfect , because in my twenties as a teacher I made a lot of mistakes . I got reactive with kids . I'd go to their level . I learned with maturity like to control that , to be even like we talked about with kickers . I'm a human . I'm not here to tell you that . Again , back to failure . I think I am where I am right now and I'm entrusted by a lot of like kids . I have a high level of respect for it all levels because they know I'm vulnerable . I tell them all the time I did that before you . Bro , don't even worry about that . Here's how we can overcome that , right ? I don't think that they like me because of my resume . I think they like me because I'm vulnerable , you know .

Coach Riley 44:20

Yeah , and there's the saying , and it's like they don't . What is it ? Like they don't care how much you know until they know how much you care , amen . And when you can talk to an athlete , you may be like , listen , I get it , but I did that , don't sweat it . Here's how we fix it , because we're all gonna do it , we're all gonna fail , we're all gonna miss field goals , we're all gonna botch snaps , but here's how we move on . And it's not the end of your life . Like , one game does not create a player , you know , just like one . It's just so .

Coach Riley 44:50

There's just so much pressure on the kids nowadays to be successful . And you know , and if it's like some of them think , well , if I only played high school ball , it was a waste of time . Now you're gonna learn so much from your athletic career that you can apply later on in life . Like you know , it's the guy who shows up five minutes for practice . He's late every day , five minutes . That guy shows up late for work five minutes every day . Like it doesn't stop . And that type of mentality really controls who you become as a person . Now , yes , you can always change , you can always have more opportunities . Like , just because you made a mistake doesn't mean you'll never have another opportunity . Now you might not have another chance at that specific opportunity , but there'll be another one that comes along . And so you gotta be able to take everything with the grain of salt .

Coach Riley 45:42

Realize that failure doesn't mean the end of the journey . It's actually a jumping off point , cause if you recognize that you failed and you know you can do something about it , that just changes everything , because now it's no longer black and white . It's like everybody's gonna fail , right , and I'm so glad you brought that up and has emphasized that . That's how you became successful . The success comes through failure . You can't . Nobody comes out as a prodigy , whether you want to say Michael Jordan , tiger Woods , kobe , whoever it is , in whatever sport , they failed hundreds , if not thousands of times at their craft .

Coach Riley 46:20

Realize that failure is part of the journey and then adjusted . They didn't say , well , I failed , so I quit . I mean , like there's the story Jordan got cut from his from the team a sophomore year . Did he complain ? Did his mom move him to another school ? Those moms would do something about it . Right , and so he did . Now , when you speak of the goat MJ , comes to mind Tom Brady , right Back up quarterback sitting on the bench . Who to thunk it right ? Well , tom knew it and that's how he went through and he was meticulous about everything . And you know it's just a different mindset . And so you know , looking forward and looking ahead , what are the goals of fourth down U and you know , kick it forward , foundation . What are your plans for the future ?

Coach Dan Lundy 47:05

I was a great lead into what I was gonna say . I was gonna add on . I think it's also very important to note that success is never final . I think that a lot of young guys that think that , like the Tom Brady's and LeBron the standards in any era , once they made it to that level they just kind of went and cruise until they got old . But I think , and I think you probably would agree , that the failure probably increased because they now knew that , man , it's windy as up top right when you're at the apex of a mountain it's really freaking . Windy conditions are harsh because people wanna blow you off .

Coach Dan Lundy 47:40

So I don't want to send a message that fail early because it's easier . I think the best people acknowledge that it's forever going . It's gonna get harder as we go . We're gonna get less chances right . So it's important for people like me that deal with high school kids to be that guy that does hold them accountable and maybe in the short term , maybe for a week or two , we're not great friends , but it's my job to nip things in the bud before they become irreparable . You only get one shot in college , especially at the Nick Saban or Meyer level , and if you're not ready for that moment . That's on you and you're not gonna be . If you had excuses right .

Coach Dan Lundy 48:20

So where do I go ? It's all about refinement , right ? The draft is never final . My favorite English teacher in seventh grade , miss Hutchinson , rest in peace Used to always say your draft will never be final , but this is your final draft for the project .

Coach Dan Lundy 48:36

It's never final , right ? So I think it's all about refinement . It's always about finding a way , like talking to you earlier and I'll just say it now you made me better about my podcast and you gave me ideas . I get those thoughts in other ways too , like Shane Graham's , the guy that I just recently started working with a little bit , and he was on my fantasy team . I followed him when I was a young guy and now we're gonna work together a little bit .

Coach Dan Lundy 48:59

But what we're trying to do is build bridges and try to find better ways to evaluate specialists and I'll make this real brief . But instead of a five star system , we wanna do like a composite score , cause I'm now signed with Trackman and Trackman's in golf . But we have metrics . We can get ball speed , hide it , line of scrimmage , apex , how much it moved in flight . All these things are super important . Spin rate faster the spin rate , the less likely you can kick in green bay , but if you hit a nice slow rotating ball , you're better there , you're best suited there . So these are the things that are very , very new and I'm excited for Cause I really do .

Coach Dan Lundy 49:38

Like you said , I think that we're young in terms of where kicking and punting and snapping is and the impact it could have . I think that it will go to another level , to where they might even have to make it nearer uprights , cause these kids are getting better , like they're getting really , really , really good in high school now . So , yeah , I don't know where it's going , but I will promise you that I'm gonna listen to this recording and I'm gonna live by these standards , like I'm just never gonna be married to my process and I'm gonna always try to wake up and make tomorrow just a little bit better . And also , like you said , I don't care what anyone else is doing as long as I am personally not going backwards right .

Coach Riley 50:17

That's such a key thing that you're able to look at that . You're able to look at your progress and recognize okay , I got more work to do . And you're right , these guys , fundamentals are practiced every day . Champions don't stop practicing fundamentals . They're champions because they practice the fundamentals . And a lot of you oh , I don't need to do that . I did that in junior high . Keep doing it , because that's what got you here .

Coach Riley 50:44

So , if I'm an athlete or I'm a parent of an athlete and I wanna reach out or I wanna utilize your system and everything , you've brought up such great points and some terms that I'm not familiar with because I'm not in the fourth down world the alley and this and that . How can somebody reach out to you to work with you on ? Do you do anyone on one stuff , like , if I send you video , can you analyze ? I'm up in Alaska , my kids up in Alaska , down in Florida , we're as far apart as you can get . Do you offer services where we can send you video and things like that and you analyze it and then you can come back and help us out ? Yeah , that's a good question .

Coach Dan Lundy 51:22

I do . I have virtual training . The easiest way to get a hold of me would be fourthdownucom , which is it's 4thdownucom , and we could probably include that in the notes . But they searched Dan Lundy , they'll find me , which is L-U-N-D-Y . Yeah , it's pretty easy . I'm Twitter . It's fourth downu . Instagram is fourth downu . They'll find me .

Coach Riley 51:46

But if not , they can reach out to you or yeah , if you've got any questions or you can't remember I heard that podcast a while back who was that guy that he was talking to ? Let me know . I'll definitely get you over to Coach Lundy . He is definitely one of the people that I've met through Instagram that I know is actually a genuine person . There's a lot of people on Instagram and it's like this is me , sure it is and then they act a different way . And but Coach Lundy , he believes what he says . He's not just out here to promote himself . In fact , he's probably one of the most humble guys I've met . He's always talking about how does he make everybody else better , and that's what makes a true leader .

Coach Riley 52:36

Right , leaders aren't followed because they're great . They're followed because they make other people great . And when you have that type of buy-in and you believe in what you're doing and you have somebody who believes in you , what occurs after that is astronomical . It's things that you can't even imagine . Doors are gonna open for you . Like you said , networking . So I would highly advise , if you have a kid who plays football or plays soccer and maybe he's interested in getting into football or whatever at the fourth down perspective , right , he doesn't have dreams of being a quarterback or whatever . And I gotta tell you , man , probably more games are won and lost by field goal kickers . I don't care what you say . Qbs are scoring touchdowns and everybody wants to be the quarterback , whatever . Who's taking you to the playoffs ? Who ? When it all comes down to it and it's one play who are you looking at ? You're looking at the kicker , you're looking at the long snapper , and long snappers don't get much love either , man , and I think that's probably one of the hardest things to do . You're upside down . You gotta hike the ball significantly more in a regular shotgun . You got some guys trying to drill you in the head , knock you off , come through . It's so such an interesting aspect of the game that I really wanna learn a little more about it and I wish there were more .

Coach Riley 53:55

I think there's a documentary or something . It was called like a long snapper and it was maybe like a 30 by 30 . I've never been able to find it again , so if anybody knows , put it down in the comments . But it was basically a little documentary about the long snapper and how their world is upside down and they live in this thing and it's such a . The whole fourth down thing is incredible . So I wanna thank you so much for doing what you're doing , hoping the kids out and , like I said , genuinely care about their success , and that comes through in your coaching and I can see it in your videos . I can tell by the detail that you're giving them that you are 100% interested in their success . So if you're a parent and you have a kid who plays football like I said , plays soccer and wants to maybe I'm over into football this is the guy . You gotta check out Fourthdownyoucom . He's on Instagram . He's the guy I love talking to . I learned so much and we could probably rift for another four hours easily , but we're gonna wrap this up , you know .

Coach Riley 54:54

I just wanna remind everybody of the powerful impact that one individual can have in the world of sports . Dan's journey from the University of Miami's national championship team to the founding of Fourthdownyou University and the Kick it Forward Foundation is not just a story of personal success , but a testament to the transformative power of dedication , mentorship and community engagement . We'd like to extend our heartfelt thanks to Dan for sharing his insights , his experiences and the inspirational work that he's doing to shape the future of football and the lives of young athletes . His commitment to excellent both on and off the field , sets a remarkable example for all of us and to our listeners . Thank you for joining us on this journey today . Your support makes the conversations like these possible and we hope that you feel inspired and informed when you're done listening to the podcast

Podcast and Foundation

Coach Riley 55:43

.

Coach Riley 55:43

Don't forget to go check out the Fourthdown Focus Podcast . He dropped so many gems in those things . It's incredible . I've got a conversation with him on there and you can learn more about the Kick it Forward Foundation when you go to Fourthdownyoucom and you can see if you have the means to contribute to this cause . I highly suggest that you do that . Stay tuned for our next episode where I'm gonna speak with another leading expert in the field of sports . Remember to subscribe and share and leave us a review in the podcast and until next time , keep striving for excellence in your own fields and never underestimate the power of a well-forthed downplay .